Horse abuse in America

[Suki Wingy]

Freedom, very well said. I have wanted to reply to this thread for a while but was unsure how to sum up my feelings. You did it for me.

[moosmom]

Thank you Pitc!!

[shepgirl]

Being an animal lover, owner of 2 dogs and former rider I want to thank you for posting this Vela. I've witnessed this stuff and much worse at slaughterhouses. And I've seen horses this thin left in bare pastures with no shelter or water. Fortunately we have one person in our city that started a rescue for horses no longer wanted or unrideable and they get excellent care...everyone donates so there's plenty of food and TLC to go around. But there are still those that will send a horse to slaughter for a measly few $$$.

[K9soul]

I've learned so much about horses the past couple years. I've always loved them, always loved watching them and seeing them, but didn't understand a lot about them behaviorally and physically. There are things I recognize now as cruelty that didn't appear cruel before, and things that appeared cruel before that I now know aren't.

One thing I have learned is that usually the horses with a job to do are the least often the victims of abuse. Now days, a "job" is usually a sport or some type of competition or entertainment since we do not NEED horses as we did in the pre-motorized days. I've also learned that some horse sports/shows that appear harmless have some very ominous and hidden things going on behind them, the worst I have learned are what is done to gaited horses to make them have such weird and unnatural gaits in the ring, to carry their tails high, their heads back, and so on. I am so glad for thoroughbreds that they are not having painful things put in their rear ends to make them hold tails up, not having their feet weighted and chained and sored to make them walk a certain way, they do not have cruel bits that cut into their tongues to make them hold their heads back, and are not spurred viciously in the ribs to make them "dance." The most they have done is the use of the crop, of which their are rules how they can be used, and is more a signal to a horse the same as a leash correction to a dog is. If used correctly, it's more to make a popping sound than actually have painful contact.

I've also learned how fragile horses are. When a 1000+ horse stumbles it is usually catastrophic. Thus horses die romping in their paddocks sometimes, galloping in the field; lipizanners in training, hunters, jumpers, Olympic equestrian horses. All stumble sometimes, step badly, end up injured and sometimes fatally. The difference is most the time it is not witnessed by a large audience. Usually those events are mostly witnessed by horse people who understand and are familiar with the issue. Steeplechasing is the sport that seems to have the most brutal and catastrophic fatalities.

Are horses being bred more fragile? That could be an issue. But I believe so are many species bred for a specific purpose. Take bulldogs and pugs for example, bred and bred to strict AKC standards until many die of heart and breathing problems. It is similar to my mind as running horses having a greater propensity to break down because they are being bred for speed more than stamina and hardiness. A definite problem, but really not pertaining to this thread which is about abuse.

And I have learned it is the horses in people's barns and fields, the ones who are rarely seen or taken note of, the ones not used for any real purpose, that are the most often neglected and abused. Underfed horribly, vetting and foot care let go, worming let go, and other vital maintenance. It is easier to keep a dog or cat fed, it is expensive and takes a lot of money and effort to keep a horse properly fed. So many, many go without. Many are not trained well, and an untrained horse is a dangerous horse, a horse that can kill you. It is much harder to rehab and train a horse that has been let go than other pets. So a lot of them end up neglected, unwanted, costing too much, shuffled around until the inevitable happens, and it is usually a slow, painful, miserable and long process.

For a horse to have clean stall, well cared for feet, well groomed and bathed, plenty of exercise and training on a daily basis, that is something the majority of horses don't receive. Many know how highly active dogs need a job, and that if they have no purpose and no job and little attention, they turn to bad behaviors: destruction, aggression, fearfulness. We talk on here so often about fatal dog attacks and what causes dogs to become that way. That is the plight of horses, but much more so than dogs. Much, much more often. It is something I never realized, did not know about, until I started truly talking to horse people, reading horse boards, reading articles. It is not something you'll find in the newspaper, just like you won't find that stuff about what makes pitbulls attack, why they are abused and what that abuse causes. So we spend so much time fighting and struggling to educate, to show people.

It is so much harder in the horse world though, because not near as many people own and are around horses and know horses other than what they see on television and in movies. And none of that shows an accurate picture about the real issues going on with horses, where the good is, and where the bad is.

ETA: I did not know about soring before until fairly recently. Thought I would add a link about it that tells more about it: http://www.thegaitedhorse.com/morethansore2.htm

[Vela]

I learned a lot about soring with owning my Walker boy, thanks for posting the link to that Jess. It's a horrid thing. He's never been sored, and he never will be as long as I own him. When I show him it will only be in flat shod classes.


Big Lick Walkers (the type sored and abused regularly for shows):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuqN9n4RF4Y

They are only babies, and some have their hind legs giving out on them during the class. This is why they sore.

another showing the "canter"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VbMq...eature=related

Walkers like mine:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSY-y...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8mjXBoW-PY

[Twisterdog]

I know very little about horses, so this is coming from a strictly amateur viewpoint.

I have never seen a horse race. I wouldn't. I do, however, have a bit of knowledge of dog racing. I used to foster greyhounds rescued from a dog track. It was a horrific sport, the "winners" treated just good enough to keep them winning and the losers simply disposed of. Of course, every "winner" becomes a "loser" eventually, and then the same fate awaited them. It is an unnatural life at best. If horse racing is dramatically different from that, I will be surprised.

I have always felt terribly sorry for many horses. Abuse and neglect is certainly rampant. I have seen many terrible cases working with humane societies ... and I'm sure what was reported to us was the tip of the iceberg, since most people associate those organizations with dogs and cats only. A common problem seem to be people underestimating the cost of keeping a horse. We saw a lot of starving horses, and the owners either got tired of paying the food bill or simply couldn't anymore. We also saw a lot of ignorance ... people who had no idea how to care for a horse. A lot of people assume if the had a dog or a cat, they could have a horse. Just give it some water and throw in some hay. We saw a lot of tooth and hoof problems, because the owners had NO idea.

It seems a lot of people have more of a functional attitude towards horses, instead of a pet relationship. They seem almost entirely interested in what the horse can or cannot accomplish, do for them, etc. And a lot of horse owners have no qualms whatsoever getting rid of their horse, without a second thought as to who buys it, and getting a new one that might better suit their needs. My friends have bought eleven horses at auctions, to keep them from going to a slaughterhouse. There was nothing "wrong" with any of these horses, they were just "trade-ins". Seems to me more like what you might do a a car ... not an animal.

[K9soul]

A common problem seem to be people underestimating the cost of keeping a horse. We saw a lot of starving horses, and the owners either got tired of paying the food bill or simply couldn't anymore. We also saw a lot of ignorance ... people who had no idea how to care for a horse. A lot of people assume if the had a dog or a cat, they could have a horse. Just give it some water and throw in some hay. We saw a lot of tooth and hoof problems, because the owners had NO idea.

It seems a lot of people have more of a functional attitude towards horses, instead of a pet relationship. They seem almost entirely interested in what the horse can or cannot accomplish, do for them, etc.

What you have said here is very much the crux of the situation for horses in general. That is why I mentioned that the horses with "jobs" to do are often the best kept too. Proper feeding, hoof care, teeth care, grooming, etc., are vital for a horse's health. A horse with poor foot and teeth care can, understandably, develop behavior problems due to discomfort, pain, lameness, etc. People get a horse and do not take care of their feet, their horse becomes lame, they find them unable to ride, and they dump them off and replace them with the next. It is not like keeping a dog's nails trimmed, hoof care is essentially life and death for a horse in the long run. Same with teeth care, if not properly done then they eventually lose the ability to eat and stay nourished.

Pictures and videos of neglected horses are not hard to find. You can find them all over on horse ads for sale even. One might think it is just the worst of the worst, but it is shockingly common.

[Twisterdog]

ETA: I did not know about soring before until fairly recently. Thought I would add a link about it that tells more about it: http://www.thegaitedhorse.com/morethansore2.htm

I'd like to add ...

I had NO idea this went on. OMG.

These people are just as bad as dog fighters. Is this not illegal?!?! Can these people not be prosecuted under animal cruelty statutes? I am hoping there is an especially hot place in the inner circle of hell for anyone who would do this to an animal.

[Vela]

It is against the law to sore horses. They send agents to as many shows as they can to check for it, but some still get away with it and some of the "inspectors" are dirty. Some still do it and/or get away with it.

The flat shod walkers are not sored, as they are trying to have a forward rolling gait, rather than a high stepping gait, but if you want to show a walker here in Utah you have to pay an extra fee to have your horse checked before entering the ring or you cannot show. They don't even show Big Lick walkers around here. It's disgusting and I look forward to a day when this does not happen anymore.

http://www.walkinonranch.com/CNN.html

This is a video link showing people soring horses or trying to cover it up. You can see the horses are obviously in pain.

[zippy-kat]

I told myself I wasn't going to post here as the original topic was lost in the continued debate about racing.... but here I am. Like Twisterdog, I had no idea about soring. But I've always been partial to QHs and Morgans and haven't really studied other breeds.

That HAS to be the worst canter ever! I don't like anything about it, including the posture of the riders. Lurch. Stop. Lurch. Stop. Weren't TWHs originally bred to cover lots of ground at a fast, smooth pace? That looks anything but smooth. Give me the sweet rocking-horse motion anyday.

Vela (and/or Jess), I'm not familiar with TWHs, are there ways to produce the big lick without harming the horse? Or is such a high step entirely man made? Someone once told me that once the headset was in place, the gait came natural to racking horses. Does that include the high step? (Is there a difference between racking and walking horses? One in the same isn't it?)

I had some other TWH horse questions but forgot them at the moment. If I remember I may post 'em in Pet General, so as not to hijack this thread.

[K9soul]

Vela can probably answer more knowledgeably, but I do not think any horse naturally gaits that way (the big lick gait). From what I understand, weights and chains are usually used to train them to walk that way but not everyone uses soring. A great many do though, and find ways to hide it from inspections. Their natural gait is just nothing like the "big lick" gaiting.

Here is a little clip of a walker foal gaiting from birth. It seems natural with them the way retrieving is often innate in retrievers from birth.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4HSkwF586ro

Racking I think is another type of gait a little different from flat-shod walkers but again that's not an area I'm as well educated in as Vela is.

[Alysser]

The thing that bothers me most is people who know NOTHING about something and say it's abuse, it's horrible, etc. It seems many people still listen to stupid organizations like PETA. Vela, I agree 100% with what you are saying and I always have. Like I've said in a different thread horses, or animals in general, can't be FORCED to do something they don't want to. I am sure there are types of cruel horseracing such as one in Texas or some other state where they run down a hill as fast as possible and topple over one another, and underground racing to. How can anybody compare dog fighting to horse-racing? Horses aren't forced to kill each other, they aren't treated poorly, there is NO comparison at all, not matter what anybody tells me. There were times when I would use the crop on my horse during horse back riding lessons. You are telling me lightly tapping a horse is abuse? It's a signal, it's not abuse.

[Twisterdog]

horses, or animals in general, can't be FORCED to do something they don't want to.

How can anybody compare dog fighting to horse-racing? Horses aren't forced to kill each other, they aren't treated poorly, there is NO comparison at all, not matter what anybody tells me.

Of course animals can be forced to do things they don't want to. So can people. Do you think the horses in those video clips want to trot around a ring with terribly sore hooves? Do you think the cart horses in cities in the past wanted to pull heavy loads every day of their lives on pavement until they literally dropped dead of exhaustion in harness? Do my dogs want to heel on a walk? No, they want to run amok and pee on everything. I force them to walk beside me. Do you think animals who are abused want to do unnatural, painful things? Do children who are sexually abused want to participate?

If you are referring to my post about dog fighting (and I don't know if you were or not), I said people who sore their horses are no better than dog fighters. I did not say horse racing is no better than dog fighting. It is ... but I said I doubted it was any better than dog racing - something I do know personally about.

[lizbud]

Of course animals can be forced to do things they don't want to. So can people. Do you think the horses in those video clips want to trot around a ring with terribly sore hooves? Do you think the cart horses in cities in the past wanted to pull heavy loads every day of their lives on pavement until they literally dropped dead of exhaustion in harness? Do my dogs want to heel on a walk? No, they want to run amok and pee on everything. I force them to walk beside me. Do you think animals who are abused want

Thank you for this intellegent post Twisterdog. I was about to post a
similar thought. Saying an animal can't be forced is not true. It's done
all the time.

[Vela]

That HAS to be the worst canter ever! I don't like anything about it, including the posture of the riders. Lurch. Stop. Lurch. Stop. Weren't TWHs originally bred to cover lots of ground at a fast, smooth pace? That looks anything but smooth. Give me the sweet rocking-horse motion anyday.

Vela (and/or Jess), I'm not familiar with TWHs, are there ways to produce the big lick without harming the horse? Or is such a high step entirely man made? Someone once told me that once the headset was in place, the gait came natural to racking horses. Does that include the high step? (Is there a difference between racking and walking horses? One in the same isn't it?)

I had some other TWH horse questions but forgot them at the moment. If I remember I may post 'em in Pet General, so as not to hijack this thread.

The Big Lick is not something that they do naturally. It is acehived with artifical aids, not necessairly soring, but the heavy leg weights and the chains. There are SOME horses who do naturally step higher than others but the Big Lick is completely artificial. I don't like the chains or the weights, i think to does permanent damage to the internal structures of the legs. They never used to walk like that on plantations, how would you get anywhere if they did? It's idiotic. I also don't like the posture of the riders. I prefer the natural gait, the forward rolling plantation walkers, and that's what I promote in my boy. As Jess showed, the come by that completely naturally.

Racking is basically a very fast gait. A TWH horse can sometimes be registered as a racking horse, but not all TWH can rack at speed and not all racking hores are TWH, some are saddlebreds, or a combinatio of the two. Jake does not do it. He can't maintain his rhythm at super high speeds, although as I get him in better shape he maintains it better and better. At one point they used standardbreds (harnes racers) to increase the speed of the gait. Here is a video link to a racking horse.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DytqyLjJd0A

Racking horses do come by it naturally, they can't really do anything artifical to make that gait with speed. They either can or can't. I'd love to get a racking horse someday.

As far as quarter horses go, they have their fair share of collateral damage =/ They sometimes inject alcohol in the base of the tail to "kill it" so they can't move it anymore, because heaven forbid you don't want a western pleasure horse's tail to move in the show ring. They do nasty thing to them to get their heads low too, and have a nasty 4 beat canter (supposed to be 3 beats) that makes them look like they are lame.