Can somebody explain the most recent Israel/Palestine conflict?

[Edwina's Secretary]

Nobody.

Really?

About 14,000 years ago, humans crossed the Bering land bridge from Siberia to North America, most experts agree.

http://www.livescience.com/history/0....html#comments

[blue]

Israel wants to control everything. Their flag says it all. The blue lines represent rivers. The star represents the people in between. They want to control what lies between the rivers, and that's a lot of land. From the Nile to the Euphrates, all the land in between is supposed to be an Israeli land.

Then why, time after time, does Israel offer and abide by cease fires with the Palistinians? Why are some Palistinians citizens of Isreal, with freedom of travel in Israels borders?

Israel DOES indeed want more land. It wants to control whatever it can.

Your proof is.....? And second hand stories from your ex does not qualify as proof.

Israel, in my opinion, should not exist. It should be Palestine. I wish everyone could live peacefully under that name, whether they be Jewish or Muslim. I just don't see it happening.

I believe to be historicly/biblicly correct it should be Philistine. The Jews have made many attemps to make peace with the Palistinians only to be shot in the face and have their children blown up.

Unfortunately, all the US does is back Israel. We do whatever they tell us to do (the government). We're just a puppet state for them, really. Heaven forbid we actually say we think that Palestinians have a right to want their land back, or that Fatah and Hammas are fighting for their rights and their land.

Heaven forbid, should we publicly back people and groups attacking civilians and children in the name of getting their land back? Should we publicly back groups that attack innocents and then use their own innocents as shields?

Both Israel and Hammas are armed. You can't say that one is wrong and the other is not. They both are fighting, and they both are killing, and the innocent are stuck in the middle. The whole situation just sucks.

Yes it sucks, but why cant I say it is wrong to use civilians as a shield and a tool for death and destruction? Why cant I say its wrong to agree to a cease fire and then launch rockets into civilian centers or sending out suicide/homicide bombers?

[RICHARD]

And calling them rock throwers, that's just a low blow, Richard.

Please don't read the posts.


Secondly, I never called the Palis rock tossers. I may have used that term in my example bit didn't call them RCs, per se.


And what about all the young kids that are seen in the effing new reels throwing rocks at the IDF tanks and vehicles?


That has always been a HAMAS line of effing BS......"We don't have the tech that the evil Israelis have-supplied by the U.S.- so we HAVE to throw rocks, toss rockets and send out kids out with bombs on their bodies.


And to make it fair, Israel has always tainted the bread they sent to the camps with body parts.

[jennielynn1970]

Did I say I was "quoting" my ex?? Did I mention him in the last how many posts?? No. I'm just saying what I think from what I've read.

Both parties use innocents. Both parties have killed innocents. I just don't see how it's going to have any kind of ending. Or anything peaceable.

[jennielynn1970]

Secondly, I never called the Palis rock tossers. I may have used that term in my example bit didn't call them RCs, per se.

I just think you could have used a different example other than rocks.

[RICHARD]

I just think you could have used a different example other than rocks.

Suicide bomber?
Indiscriminate murderers?
Fanatics?
Mortar lobbers?

I brought this up in a thread a while ago.

When people call some illegal aliens 'wetbacks' or some other perjorative term, I cannot take offense. It's the way many of MY people ended up here.

To allude to a certain faction of people who DO THROW ROCKS at armed soldiers as rock throwers is neither a low blow or anything else.

I calls them as I sees them.


I could call them a band of idiots for trying to engage armed troops with stones, But that just takes away the ideal that they are innocent of any wrong doing.


And what is your reaction to the Hamas AHs in the news conference and the 'graveyard' comment?


Lovely, they want the world to rally behind them and they make no bones about threatening death to the Israelis.

Let me make myself clear. I don't like either side being stupid, war or killing.
I do have a limit as the the stupidity and 'poor me' line of crap that comes out of the area.

I don't lump all the Palis in with the Hamas, PLO, Hezbollah effups. Their is a line, and it's too bad that people have to make it more difficult for everyone involved.

The Hamas and the other morons are doing the talking and wrecking the chance of anyone living in peace in the area.

----------------

Can you please tell me who the people are that I see on the tube throwing stones at the IDF vehicles?

[blue]

Did I say I was "quoting" my ex?? Did I mention him in the last how many posts?? No. I'm just saying what I think from what I've read.

Both parties use innocents. Both parties have killed innocents. I just don't see how it's going to have any kind of ending. Or anything peaceable.

You seem to place great importance on your ex's opinion. [EDIT]I never said you where quoting your ex, only that you where relating stories from him secondhand.[/EDIT] And you have ducked the question of proof for your statement of

Israel DOES indeed want more land. It wants to control whatever it can.

*Major Edit!!!*

How does Israel use their innocents against Hammas and the Palistinian terrorists?

[blue]

A slippery slope if you start relying on boundaries in 70 AD! Let's see...North America was inhabited by....

Really?



http://www.livescience.com/history/0....html#comments

OMG!!! You actually back up somthing you stated with some facts!!!

I will concede the point to you.

So should we give the continent back to the original settlers of the continent and move back to where ever the heck we came from?

[momoffuzzyfaces]

Nobody.

My Native American kinfolk and I beg to differ with you on this!

QUOTE: So should we give the continent back to the original settlers of the continent and move back to where ever the heck we came from?
__________________
Ok, but tell me which country those of us with mixed heritages should go back to? Besides, I did come from this country!

[Edwina's Secretary]

My Native American kinfolk and I beg to differ with you on this!

QUOTE: So should we give the continent back to the original settlers of the continent and move back to where ever the heck we came from?
__________________
Ok, but tell me which country those of us with mixed heritages should go back to? Besides, I did come from this country!

That is exactly my point MOFF...

Originally Posted by momoffuzzyfaces
Really Israel was there first. They were thrown out by the Romans in 70 AD. There are still ruins from their original buildings there just being found by archelogists.]

If we start trying to establish borders in 2009 based on who lived where once upon a time...we are on a slippery slope.

Whose ancestors lived somewhere thousands of years ago just doesn't seem to me to be a good way to sort things out...without a whole bunch of people being displaced!

[momoffuzzyfaces]

That is exactly my point MOFF...



If we start trying to establish borders in 2009 based on who lived where once upon a time...we are on a slippery slope.

Whose ancestors lived somewhere thousands of years ago just doesn't seem to me to be a good way to sort things out...without a whole bunch of people being displaced!

I agree but that's exactly part of the problem. All three of the largest religions: Judiasim, Christianity and Muslims feel they own the land because of their ancestors and religions. People over there live their religion. To them it's not a pile of "crap" like some have stated here. They are willing to die for their beliefs and not as tolerant of other beliefs as we are here.

[jennielynn1970]

You seem to place great importance on your ex's opinion. [EDIT]I never said you where quoting your ex, only that you where relating stories from him secondhand.[/EDIT] And you have ducked the question of proof for your statement of

I place great importance on what he's told me, as well as the different sites I've read over the years about the situation. If he's experience things first hand, since he IS a Palestinian refugee, why shouldn't I place great importance upon what he has told me in regards to that?? I've heard about his relatives being killed, I've heard about his brother and father living on the boats, unable to dock at any country during the conflict in Kuwait.

Did I say that I back all the crazy things that the Islamic radical fundamentalists do? No. I don't back anything that is so crazy and creates more chaos. What I was saying was that, I understand how they can be so upset and pissed off that they are displaced. They were driven out of their land, like the Native Americans were (which I'm related to, through my grandpa, he was Delaware Indian).

I still think that the land belongs to the Palestinians and others who lived there before they created Israel after WWII. That's my belief, and I've believed that even before I met my ex (back in 2003). He and I didn't agree on many things, but we bonded on that one.

[popcornbird]

I recieved this in an email yesterday. Feel free to read...

Top 5 Lies about Israel's Assault on Gaza
Jeremy R. Hammond

Jan 3, 2009

Lie #1) Israel is only targeting legitimate military sites and is seeking to protect innocent lives. Israel never targets civilians.

The Gaza Strip is one of the most densely populated pieces of property in the world. The presence of militants within a civilian population does not, under international law, deprive that population of their protected status, and hence any assault upon that population under the guise of targeting militants is, in fact, a war crime.

Moreover, the people Israel claims are legitimate targets are members of Hamas, which Israel says is a terrorist organization. Hamas has been responsible for firing rockets into Israel. These rockets are extremely inaccurate and thus, even if Hamas intended to hit military targets within Israel, are indiscriminate by nature. When rockets from Gaza kill Israeli civilians, it is a war crime.

Hamas has a military wing. However, it is not entirely a military organization, but a political one. Members of Hamas are the democratically elected representatives of the Palestinian people. Dozens of these elected leaders have been kidnapped and held in Israeli prisons without charge. Others have been targeted for assassination, such as Nizar Rayan, a top Hamas official. To kill Rayan, Israel targeted a residential apartment building. The strike not only killed Rayan but two of his wives and four of his children, along with six others. There is no justification for such an attack under international law. This was a war crime.

Other of Israelʼs bombardment with protected status under international law have included a mosque, a prison, police stations, and a university, in addition to residential buildings.

Moreover, Israel has long held Gaza under siege, allowing only the most minimal amounts of humanitarian supplies to enter. Israel is bombing and killing Palestinian civilians. Countless more have been wounded, and cannot receive medical attention. Hospitals running on generators have little or no fuel. Doctors have no proper equipment or medical supplies to treat the injured. These people, too, are the victims of Israeli policies targeted not at Hamas or legitimate military targets, but directly designed to punish the civilian population.



Lie #2) Hamas violated the cease-fire. The Israeli bombardment is a response to Palestinian rocket fire and is designed to end such rocket attacks.

Israel never observed the cease-fire to begin with. From the beginning, it announced a "special security zone" within the Gaza Strip and announced that Palestinians who enter this zone will be fired upon. In other words, Israel announced its intention that Israeli soldiers would shoot at farmers and other individuals attempting to reach their own land in direct violation of not only the cease-fire but international law.

Despite shooting incidents, including ones resulting in Palestinians getting injured, Hamas still held to the cease-fire from the time it went into effect on June 19 until Israel effectively ended the truce on November 4 by launching an airstrike into Gaza that killed five and injured several others.

Israelʼs violation of the cease-fire predictably resulted in retaliation from militants in Gaza who fired rockets into Israel in response. The increased barrage of rocket fire at the end of December is being used as justification for the continued Israeli bombardment, but is a direct response to the Israeli attacks.

Israel's actions, including its violation of the cease-fire, predictably resulted in an escalation of rocket attacks against its own population.



Lie #3) Hamas is using human shields, a war crime.

There has been no evidence that Hamas has used human shields. The fact is, as previously noted, Gaza is a small piece of property that is densely populated. Israel engages in indiscriminate warfare such as the assassination of Nizar Rayan, in which members of his family were also murdered. It is victims like his dead children that Israel defines as "human shields" in its propaganda. There is no legitimacy for this interpretation under international law. In circumstances such as these, Hamas is not using human shields, Israel is committing war crimes in violation of the Geneva Conventions and other applicable international law.



Lie #4) Arab nations have not condemned Israelʼs actions because they understand Israelʼs justification for its assault.

The populations of those Arab countries are outraged at Israelʼs actions and at their own governments for not condemning Israelʼs assault and acting to end the violence. Simply stated, the Arab governments do not represent their respective Arab populations. The populations of the Arab nations have staged mass protests in opposition to not only Israel's actions but also the inaction of their own governments and what they view as either complacency or complicity in Israel's crimes.

Moreover, the refusal of Arab nations to take action to come to the aid of the Palestinians is not because they agree with Israelʼs actions, but because they are submissive to the will of the US, which fully supports Israel. Egypt, for instance, which refused to open the border to allow Palestinians wounded in the attacks to get medical treatment in Egyptian hospitals, is heavily dependent upon US aid, and is being widely criticized within the population of the Arab countries for what is viewed as an absolute betrayal of the Gaza Palestinians.

Even Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas has been regarded as a traitor to his own people for blaming Hamas for the suffering of the people of Gaza. Palestinians are also well aware of Abbas' past perceived betrayals in conniving with Israel and the US to sideline the democratically elected Hamas government, culminating in a counter-coup by Hamas in which it expelled Fatah (the military wing of Abbas' Palestine Authority) from the Gaza Strip. While his apparent goal was to weaken Hamas and strengthen his own position, the Palestinians and other Arabs in the Middle East are so outraged at Abbas that it is unlikely he will be able to govern effectively.



Lie #5) Israel is not responsible for civilian deaths because it warned the Palestinians of Gaza to flee areas that might be targeted.

Israel claims it sent radio and telephone text messages to residents of Gaza warning them to flee from the coming bombardment. But the people of Gaza have nowhere to flee to. They are trapped within the Gaza Strip. It is by Israeli design that they cannot escape across the border. It is by Israeli design that they have no food, water, or fuel by which to survive. It is by Israeli design that hospitals in Gaza have no electricity and few medical supplies with which to treat the injured and save lives. And Israel has bombed vast areas of Gaza, targeting civilian infrastructure and other sites with protected status under international law. No place is safe within the Gaza Strip.

-Jeremy R. Hammond is the editor of Foreign Policy Journal (www.foreignpolicyjournal.com), a website dedicated to providing news, critical analysis, and opinion commentary on U.S. foreign policy from outside of the standard framework offered by government officials and the mainstream corporate media, particularly with regard to the "war on terrorism" and events in the Middle East. He has also written for numerous other online publications.
www.foreignpolicyjournal.com

[lizbud]

I have been reading quite a bit on the history of bad feelings between
the two groups involved and still don't understand it all. I did read one
comment that I agree sums up this awful war. Here is the quote.


"While I fully support Isreal's right to defend herself against a constant barage of rockets, it is lamentable than so many innocents are dying. Why does the world sit back and watch the terrorists continual rocket fire and say nothing? Unfortunately Zawahiri and his ilk know that Isreal can't really win in the court of public opinion because his pals use the innocents as sheilds. They goad Isreal into a fight and then hide behind the childrern. When they die, they blame Isreal for the massacre instead of taking responsibility. When will the Palestinian people realize they are being held hostage not by the Isrealies but by Hamas, Islamic Jihad and Bin Laden???? God help us all... "

[RICHARD]

Can anyone answer these questions?


Which side sends kids out as homicide bombers?

Which side throws more rocks?

Which side lobs off mortars and rockets, willy nilly?

-------------


LOLOLOL,

AGAIN, shooting off 'inaccurate rockets' is a free pass to act like morons.

That's like dropping stones-NOTICE I SAID STONE DROPPER NOT ROCK THROWER- off a freeway overpass.

You aren't really aiming at vehicles.......

This Rayan character should burn in effing hell for involving his wife and kids in a political skirmish. Of course we all will say, "It's criminal that he was taken out with a bomb that happened to kill women and children he was hiding behind."


The 'men' running Hamas are spineless bullies who have no value on the face of the earth. Instead of waging their 'war' against Israel out in the open they hide behind the skirts and diapers of family members, putting them in harm's way.

Scum is way too high on the evolutionary scale to be compared to such dastardly AHs who parade as people looking for justice.


P.S.

Let's explain what the "submissive will of the U.S." REALLY is...

It's whatever munitions will fit on a fighter, flying overhead.