Chicken had her kittens! *pics*

[NoahsMommy]

I need to add a few things on this subject:

Education: www.declawing.com

Just because people don't "see" a difference in their cats, doesn't mean there isn't one. Ever hear that cats don't show signs of weakness or illness because they fear they'll be attacked/killed? Hmmmm.....yep, even pampered house cats.

People don't always (if ever) show what they are really feeling. Animals do the same. HOW do you know your cats aren't traumatized?? If I took your front line defense...no wait, if YOUR MOM, no...your only means of survival took your only defense, how would you feel?????

Now that I work for a vet, I am EVEN MORE against it. (I didn't think that was possible!)

I get to see these babies stumbling around because of their bandages, wincing in PAIN when they try to get up, crying if moved.

I get to SMELL the scent of burning flesh from the amputation because the vet I work for uses a laser.

I get to answer the phone calls and listen to how freaked out the humans are that their cats paws are bleeding everywhere.

I then, get to check those people in and again, see those poor furballs. In pain, again!!!

I also get to see people bring in their cats AGAIN to have the back paws declawed because, "For SOME reason, my cat is biting me more and using his back claws to REALLY get me!!" (idiots!!) Last week, we had to hear a Bengal cry the entire day, growl at anything that passed his cage and wince in pain so much, he about fell over. Of all cats to do that do...

**********************************************
For those of you NOT against it, you need to spend a day in a vets office to really see what these furkids go through.

To me, its quite obvious that this is cruel, uneducated behavior:

#1 I'm a cat, everything in my being makes me use my claws for everything from the second I'm born.

#2 I grow up a bit and KNOW in my heart, my front paws, just like a human's hands, are my main defense against everything.

#3 I also have an inate desire to scratch. You know, so I can stretch, relieve stress, develop muscle and keep my nails healthy by removing the old ones. (AN ACT I WAS PROGRAMMED TO DO)

#4 Then....I'm old enough to be fixed (whatever that means! ) and I wake up in pain cause my paws hurt. I can't clean them, I can touch them, I can't even MOVE them! A few days later, I can see them, but now I can't scratch, it hurts to walk, it hurts to use my litter box.

#5 A week or so pass and I finally realize my main source of protection is GONE!!! What do I do? I'm not safe...what if something tries to get me?

#6 Guess what I found???? My back paws not only have claws too, but my back legs are stronger and I have MORE power!! All I have to do is hold on to my attacker with my nice, sharp teeth and BAM!! I'm protected!!!

Hope I don't get sent to the pound or kitty heaven cause now, I'm a "biter"!

**That was taken from TheCatSite.com...it was two posts I wrote on there regarding declawing.

I honestly am not trying to offend you, I promise. I may be coming accross pretty harshly, but its because of what I've seen at work and in my life so far. You have no idea how many cats get euthanized because they bite after their "standard" declaw...or how many get taken to the shelter. Its sickening, unneccesary and WRONG!!! That's where I'm coming from...please understand that....

[micki76]

As a person who owned cats most of her life (until recently), I personally think that the naivety that this is not a cruel and painful procedure, is pitiful. We all know how bad this is. Why can’t it be outlawed here as in Europe?
Would you debark your dog? It’s the same reasoning, you know. It’s completely for YOUR benefit, not for the animal. It saddens me when people do something so painful to their family member just to protect the sofa.

[Kater]

Have you ever considered that perhaps Smitten's aggressive behavior is a negative side effect of being declawed? Well it is a very strong possibility. Not all kitties act the way you describe Smitten here:
http://petoftheday.com/talk/showthre...&threadid=7707

Please reconsider declawing this innocent kitten. Claws are just part of being a kitty guardian!!!!

[2kitties]

Everything you've posted is contradictory. You say you know declawing is bad. You say you are against declawing. You say know it's a painful procedure... but still you're gonna do it anyway.
Also, your main excuses to do it are:
1. My mommy won't let me have a cat unless I mutilate it, and I want one so bad I'll do anything to get one. - yea, that sounds like you're mature enough to own and care for an animal
and:
2. If I don't do it somebody else will anyway.

In life, we have two choices: Be a part of the problem or a part of the solution. I guess we can see which part you've chosen.

[slleipnir]

lol. I don't know why I both coming back to this thread lol.

Noahs:
Please re-read what I wrote and stop saying I think its ok like I think its a good thing. Should I put it this way. When you send your cat in to have its uterus, does it help this particular cat? No, it doesn't. But it helps its future cats..so why does that make it ok? It does NOTHING to your cat other then sever pain. If you want to keep telling yourself its for a reason then go ahead.

Also, my dad couldn't care less about this subject, he printed it off for me. Not to convince me to do it or not to. He only did it because I was upset because of you ignorant ppl.

Perhaps I could quote genesis "God said to them, 'Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.'"

I really stopped caring what you think of me. If you truely think I'm doing this to be mean then go ahead because again, your only looking at it one sidded. I however do not think I'm being unrealistic because the truth is I'm not the only one who does it. My dad tells me 'Is it really better for the cat to not have claws, or to be killed? Or maybe it will have a home where it has claws and is an outdoor cat and is happy, or maybe the other person will declaw it it anyway, or, maybe it will be left somewhere as a stray'

Noah: Yes, I have seen it, no I don't think its pretty, but I have also seen spaying which I feel is a lot more painful esp. when it doesn't help the cat..(I don't care if it helps by preventing future cats, it still doesn't help this cat. It just makes you ppl feel better by thinking of it that way)

Kater: That was like 2 yrs ago lol. She was just playing however, at the time I thought she was just being evil. I can tell in her behavior that it is different from if she sees a unfarmilliar cat lets say.

You ppl expect me to see things how you see it, that declawing its 100% wrong regardless. Yet, some of you have declawed your cats but now say its bad..even though you've had more then one. So how does that make you better then me?

I'm going to ask Karen to close this thread. I'm tired of this discusion getting no where. Maybe if you'd think of it from my side..even though you say you do, like " My mommy won't let me have a cat unless I mutilate it, and I want one so bad I'll do anything to get one" which is not how I think at all so grow up. You ppl say I'm immature, when your the ones ranting on like children. Theres no maturaty issue here. I'm more then mature enough to care for my animals. I have a job and pay for them myself, they get all the love and attention they need..again, I'm sorry that for your pets thats not the #1 issue to you. Poor things

[slleipnir]

BTW, Smitten still acts as if she has claws. Perhaps I will tape her and I playing, she sits down, and swats at me with her front paws. She kneeds at the door frames. I wouldn't say unprotected as shes an indoor cat. Besides, her back claws and teeth make up for it.

[nodgeness]

Once again I come into this thread annoyed.
Annoyed why ? you ask.
BECAUSE THIS ISN"T WHAT THE THREAD IS ABOUT!
Stick w/ the thread. If you want the topic to be declawing start a new thread.
If you want to answer in this thread stick w/ the topic.

In this thread the original question by slleipnir was

Do you think they'll have long fur? Or is it too earlyl?

& the other thread was about kitty names & whether we thought she should get a male kitty or a female kitty to go w/ her older female cat.
Do you think her questions got answered?

[2kitties]

Originally posted by slleipnir
When you send your cat in to have its uterus, does it help this particular cat? No, it doesn't. But it helps its future cats..so why does that make it ok? It does NOTHING to your cat other then sever pain. If you want to keep telling yourself its for a reason then go ahead.

Actually, with each heat cycle, an animal's chance of reproductive cancers increases. No spayed female has ever died during childbirth. And, no neutered male has ever died from testicular cancer. So spaying and neutering does, in fact, help the animal.

[Uabassoon]

When you send your cat in to have its uterus, does it help this particular cat? No, it doesn't.

Umm you might need to do some more research on this. I know that you think you are so "educated" on all these procedures, but spaying does in fact help the cat. It greatly reduces the chances of serveral types of cancer. So hmm, a few days of pain or years of pain and dealing with medicines, chemo, a shortenend lifespan... yeah you need to read up more because spaying does help the cat!

[aly]

Originally posted by slleipnir

I have a job and pay for them myself, they get all the love and attention they need..again, I'm sorry that for your pets thats not the #1 issue to you. Poor things

The reason we are all posting is because of our love for animals. If we didn't love them so much, we could shrug this off.

For the most part, people on this thread have given their educated opinions backed up by facts. A couple of the posts are harsh yes, but I really don't think this thread is out of hand at all.

BTW, spaying a cat is NOT more painful than declawing by any means! The cat has to stay at the vet clinic for at least 3 days for a declaw surgery, and for a spay they can go home the same day (or the next day in some cases). The effects and pain from declawing could last years and years. No, it doesn't always, but there is a good chance that it could. 90% of the cat bites that I have received at the shelter have been from declawed cats. I've seen sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo many people dumping their cats off after a declaw surgery because of the complications and behavioral problems that resulted.

I guess what I don't understand is why you won't at least try Softpaws or scratching posts. If it is because of a rule by your parents, you might try educating them and asking if you can explore ALL alternatives for the kitten.

[slleipnir]

Because, my mom says she wants it done. I don't have zillions of dollars to keep ordering softpaws from the US for many yrs.

And all I ment by the spaying thing, is that wild animals don't have that, so thats the way god made them, just like the claws. Rufus was never neutered and never had heath issues. He was the healthest dog I knew.

My mom had a hysterectomy, which she said was the very painful. I don't see how thats any diff from a cat other then we get more meds.

And I'm sorry that it doesn't seem that way Aly. But to me it seems you ppl would rather a chance the kitten ends up in a bad home then a for sure good loving home. Smitten is spoiled rotten and loved to death..she plays and does everything but scratch furnature like normal cats

[aly]

I guess just imagine getting your uterus removed .. then imagine getting your fingers and toes cut off to the first knuckle. You would not be able to walk very well, you couldn't tie your shoes, everything you do would hurt.

Cats and dogs bounce back VERY quickly from being spayed.

[Kater]

The Association of Veterinarians for Animal Rights (AVAR) has stated that “declawing is generally unacceptable because the suffering and disfigurement it causes is not offset by any benefits to the cat. Declawing is done strictly to provide convenience for people.”

A cat spay prevents a cat from going into heat & prevents pregnancy but additionally to the individual cat's advantage it also...
-prevents the cat from getting uterine infections later in life
-significantly helps prevent the cat from getting breast cancer later in life

Declawing is not a "minor" surgery comparable to spaying and neutering procedures, it is 10, separate, painful amputations of the distal phalanx at the joint (disjointing).
from http://www.cowtowncats.com/Declawing%20Your%20Cat.htm

Please do not even try to compare the two.

[micki76]

Originally posted by aly
I guess just imagine getting your uterus removed .. then imagine getting your fingers and toes cut off to the first knuckle. You would not be able to walk very well, you couldn't tie your shoes, everything you do would hurt.

Cats and dogs bounce back VERY quickly from being spayed.

Speaking as someone who has had their uterus and all female reproductive organs removed, yes it was not comfortable. But would I rather have all my fingers and/or toes cut off at the last joint? Heck no! I don’t miss the uterus, but the ends of my fingers and/or toes would be very difficult to live without. Not having a uterus has only benefited me (no more periods, no cramps, no more cancer), but removing my fingers and/or toes at the first knuckle would be an enormous hassle in life and make even the smallest tasks terribly difficult.

[moosmom]

Thank you Micki76! You took the words right outta my mouth!!

I also had all my plumbing removed 5 years ago. It was uncomfortable for approximately 3 weeks. Do I miss it?? Heck no. I also don't miss all the other stuff that goes along with it.

I think Aly is trying to compare apples to oranges here.