Disabled person in Wal-Mart thrown out!

[TamanduaGirl]

Just so you all know in the States Service Dogs do not have to wear any identifying ID or equipment, they do not have to be certified and no business can asked to see ID on the Service Dog. A business can only legally ask 3 questions. Is that a Service Dog? Are you Disabled? What Tasks does your service animal perform? Here some links that may help to answer some of your questions:

http://www.acesinfo.org/questions.htm
http://www.deltasociety.org/home.htm
http://www.iaadp.org/index.html

Nicole & Sheena

good I'm just reading this now and was going to post that if someone didn't

they only let her finish shopping because she refused to leave. Exceptions are for if the business has to make unreasonable acommedations, a giant breed dog or say full sized horse instead of a mini horse guide laying in the middle of an isle at a restaurant causing people to have to climb over or wait, Some people use large breeds but they are trained to "be small", or not being allowed to take a service dog into a petting zoo where it would scare the animals, behaved dog or not, causing a stampede over the little kids present, if it miss behaves. Claiming you or the customers might be scared or uncomfortable isn't good enough unless you litteraly have a phobia where you turn into a screaming crying ect person at the site of one, then maybe, otherwise anyone could keep all service animals out due to discomfort or the possibility of customers getting upset.

[DrKym]

Again I will reiterate,
No animal here is required to wear vest, collar Id tag, or identification of its Service, it is ENCOURAGED that the owners do so and if owner trained to have it certified, as traveling with a Service animal is easier and less time consuming. It is NOT necessary.

There are several bills being looked into to change and tighten up the law a bit, and maybe they will pass, maybe not.

Point is Nicole is correct and gave a few other websites I would have also given. After nearly 16 years in training and working with several types of Service animals, I must say I couldn't have explained it better myself.

Point of the original OP was that the dog was discriminated against the breed. That may be true but Wal-mart was still within their legal rights, the transaction was allowed to conclude.

The owner of the animal; we will presume was aware of responsibilities as a Service dog user. I say presume as she seems aware, if a bit misinformed of her "legal rights". None of which were infringed upon , unless there is a law that cutting a shopping trip short is now illegal.

On that note she could have also removed the animal shopped until she dropped and no harm done. She chose to try to make it about the breed and the breed only, and that is simple grandstanding.

Just my thoughts ,
kym

[DrKym]

good I'm just reading this now and was going to post that if someone didn't

they only let her finish shopping because she refused to leave. Exceptions are for if the business has to make unreasonable acommedations, a giant breed dog or say full sized horse instead of a mini horse guide laying in the middle of an isle at a restaurant causing people to have to climb over or wait, Some people use large breeds but they are trained to "be small", or not being allowed to take a service dog into a petting zoo where it would scare the animals, behaved dog or not, causing a stampede over the little kids present, if it miss behaves. Claiming you or the customers might be scared or uncomfortable isn't good enough unless you litteraly have a phobia where you turn into a screaming crying ect person at the site of one, then maybe, otherwise anyone could keep all service animals out due to discomfort or the possibility of customers getting upset.

Almost not quite, you can as another customer claim you are allergic, and also threaten to leave, in that scenario, the animal can also be asked to leave.

Your child may have a fear of dogs, if you had been seated first, and the Service animal is causing or will cause undue stress on another patron you can legally be refused service.

If the animal is in a movie theatre and causes a disturbance, barking ,whining, lying in a darkened aisle that may pose a risk to others , you can also be asked to remove the animal.


So actually yes if the other people are impacted in their experience at the merchants in a negative way then it doesn't matter if they are crying or hysterical, simply that they would be impacted negatively, and that if another patron would be asked to leave and was NOT disabled then it is legal to ask them to go. or to refuse service.

[NicoleLJ]

Almost not quite, you can as another customer claim you are allergic, and also threaten to leave, in that scenario, the animal can also be asked to leave.

Your child may have a fear of dogs, if you had been seated first, and the Service animal is causing or will cause undue stress on another patron you can legally be refused service.

If the animal is in a movie theatre and causes a disturbance, barking ,whining, lying in a darkened aisle that may pose a risk to others , you can also be asked to remove the animal.


So actually yes if the other people are impacted in their experience at the merchants in a negative way then it doesn't matter if they are crying or hysterical, simply that they would be impacted negatively, and that if another patron would be asked to leave and was NOT disabled then it is legal to ask them to go. or to refuse service.

Actually that is not quite true. In the case of allergy or fear then the business would first have to try and accomidate both parties. So say you are shopping in Walmart(fairly large store) and someone has a fear or allergy and complains. The store would first have to try and accomidate both parties. They could do this by asking the people to avoid each other, ask one to shop then the other, see if they can shop in different departments and so on. Now if the dog was causing a distrubance as you said they can be asked to be removed from the premisies. The trick is reasonable accomidation. Here is a link about that:

http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/ada/svcanimb.htm

"Allergies and fear of animals are generally not valid reasons for denying access or refusing service to people with service animals."


Thanks for backing up my statements in the other posts. I am fairly new to the Service Dog laws of Canada and the States(only at it about 4 yrs, have had my servcie dog for 3 years now). But I have been lucky to be learning for one of the best ladies around about Service Dogs. Her name is Judi Bayly and she trained the first ever 911 dog and started ACES a non for profit Advacocy Group about Service dogs. Any time I have a question or I am unsure about anything I can go to her. She is a wealth of info and has to keep up with all the laws since she teaches Law enforcment, hospitals and so forth about them. The rare time she doesn't have the answer she then knows how to get it. So I am blessed that way. For anyone involved in Servcie Dogs at all in any way they should keep informed of the laws. Simply because we have to be examples for all Service dog teams.
Nicole

[DrKym]

Nicole ,
you are right in the reasonable accomodation, however bear in mind I was simplifying it for the sake of cutting the earlier threads argument short. Meaning the person doesn't have to be hysterical or crying etc.
Point was if the other patrons are impacted negatively, and if the patron who is impacting would be asked to leave IF they were NOT disabled, then, yes they can be asked to either remove the animal, or to be refused service.

I am thrilled to hear that you are blessed by a Service animal, and wish you both many years of mutal benefit and happiness!

[NicoleLJ]

I completely agree. Sometimes I forget I am talking to people who don't know a lot of the ins and outs of the Service Dog world(not meaning you) and forget to simplify things. LOL. I get set in one midset and forget. lol

Thanks. I am blessed to have her and she has given me a life i never thought I could have.
Nicole

[CathyBogart]

I just wanted to throw in here that I got to walk with a seeing eye dog last week and it was a real eye-opener (pun acknowledged. ). This dog was amazing, and the way he navigated me, a total stranger to being "blind" or using a seeing eye dog, around a room was incredible. I am so in awe of the folks who train these dogs, as well as the people who build the relationship and the trust to rely on ANY service dog, not just a guide dog.

Even for an animal lover like me it was scary to let myself depend on the dog, even for a few seconds. I don't know if I'm strong enough or trusting enough to do that every day.

[Cataholic]

NicoleLJ, thanks for some wonderful links! I really learned alot.

[NicoleLJ]

No problem. I have a ton more. For obvious reasons I am very passionate about Service Dogs.
Nicole

[mike001]

Again I will reiterate,
No animal here is required to wear vest, collar Id tag, or identification of its Service, it is ENCOURAGED that the owners do so and if owner trained to have it certified, as traveling with a Service animal is easier and less time consuming. It is NOT necessary.

There are several bills being looked into to change and tighten up the law a bit, and maybe they will pass, maybe not.

Point is Nicole is correct and gave a few other websites I would have also given. After nearly 16 years in training and working with several types of Service animals, I must say I couldn't have explained it better myself.

Point of the original OP was that the dog was discriminated against the breed. That may be true but Wal-mart was still within their legal rights, the transaction was allowed to conclude.

The owner of the animal; we will presume was aware of responsibilities as a Service dog user. I say presume as she seems aware, if a bit misinformed of her "legal rights". None of which were infringed upon , unless there is a law that cutting a shopping trip short is now illegal.

On that note she could have also removed the animal shopped until she dropped and no harm done. She chose to try to make it about the breed and the breed only, and that is simple grandstanding.

Just my thoughts ,
kym

Dr Goodnow, you live in the outer portion of the universe...lol...Unfortunately most of us have to live in the inner portion. But I agree with the US. not having to dress their dogs in some states. Where we are from, we are asked to have proper ID and certification for our SD's. The reason things are getting so strict is because of impersonations of SD's. We don"t have to have a full vest in the heat of summer but the tag is mandatory in our city. I don't really know why the woman was pushing the issue of her service dog, maybe it was to grandstand. Most people fear pitts and Wal-mart would be responsible for any accident, but it seems the matter was settled without too much trouble. This is the whole point of ID and certification, no one can argue with you. Around here we have no access problems because of stricter laws I guess. I was just sent a link from a breeder about people being able to purchase service dog equipment on the internet, I wish I would have saved it.
How reputable is that of a company to offer something like this? I consider it totally innapropriate. You get your tag and vest from your training facility when you graduate.

[NicoleLJ]

Dr Goodnow, you live in the outer portion of the universe...lol...Unfortunately most of us have to live in the inner portion. But I agree with the US. not having to dress their dogs in some states. Where we are from, we are asked to have proper ID and certification for our SD's. The reason things are getting so strict is because of impersonations of SD's. We don"t have to have a full vest in the heat of summer but the tag is mandatory in our city. I don't really know why the woman was pushing the issue of her service dog, maybe it was to grandstand. Most people fear pitts and Wal-mart would be responsible for any accident, but it seems the matter was settled without too much trouble. This is the whole point of ID and certification, no one can argue with you. Around here we have no access problems because of stricter laws I guess. I was just sent a link from a breeder about people being able to purchase service dog equipment on the internet, I wish I would have saved it.
How reputable is that of a company to offer something like this? I consider it totally innapropriate. You get your tag and vest from your training facility when you graduate.

Canada does not require certifaction or tags. Only a doctors note. If you look at my links you will see an official letter from a government official about it. And Service Dogs do not have to be from a facility they can be owner trained. Hence being able to purchase the equipment online. There is nothing wrong with that at all. Do your research please or provide proof to back up your claims. I did. I provided an official letter to back me up. Can you?

Just in case you missed the letter the first time here it is agian:

http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/oATZRYK...oBlankname.pdf

It is from the Accessability Directorate of Ontario.
Nicole

[mike001]

There is so much in this that is funny. First of all ACES is American. lol And is a Non for profit Advocacy group that teaches law enforcement, hospitals and public businesses what the federal law is pertaining to Service Dogs and what should be done when they come in contact with a service dog and their handler. You should do some research before you make a blantant claim about something you know nothing about. LOL I will have to show Judi this thread(founder of ACES) she will find this truely laughable just like the other lies you tried to post about her on other forums. lol

Check your Canadian laws. I have told you on other forums to do this but you never do. I even give you the links to the laws and still you refuse to look. If you refuse to gain the knowledge then stop spreading lies. In Canada there is only One type of Service dog that is accepted and protected by the laws in all provinces. That is Guide Dogs. All teh provinces make up their own laws regaurding Service Dogs. And yes Owner Trained dogs are accepted. They have the same rights as all the other service dogs which is at teh discresion of the store or business. Most businesses luckily are very aware of the different types of Service dogs and as such allow them.

Hwo do I know about teh laws? I have a PSD. And there is finnally a PSD that has been certified in Canada by a trainer. There are many PSD's in Canada. And there is 2 training facilities in Canada now that train PSD's. One in fact is in Ontario. So next time you make another claim you know nothing about do your research. PLEASE. I am so sick of correcting you when you post crap ,like this on a forum. And agian to show how uneducated you are their is no such thing as a service dog called a PTS. PTS means Put To Sleep. GESH but thanks for the laugh.
Nicole

Nicole, you keep referring to me as someone you know. Could you stop developing paranoid ideas when I post. I have no idea who you are, and I don't do other forums except for service dog forums. as for Aces, I know who they are and where they originate.
Just so you don't make the same mistake twice, when I posted PTS that's what I meant...as in post traumatic stress. We were talking service dogs, not euthanization.
Could you refrain from the rudeness, it doesn't become the forum at all. No one put you in charge of correcting people so why do you do it, I'm here to learn also, so could you please ignore my posts if they offend you?

[Kfamr]

I just wanted to throw in here that I got to walk with a seeing eye dog last week and it was a real eye-opener (pun acknowledged. ). This dog was amazing, and the way he navigated me, a total stranger to being "blind" or using a seeing eye dog, around a room was incredible. I am so in awe of the folks who train these dogs, as well as the people who build the relationship and the trust to rely on ANY service dog, not just a guide dog.

Even for an animal lover like me it was scary to let myself depend on the dog, even for a few seconds. I don't know if I'm strong enough or trusting enough to do that every day.

That sounds SO neat! I would absolutely love to have an experience like that.

[NicoleLJ]

Nicole, you keep referring to me as someone you know. Could you stop developing paranoid ideas when I post. I have no idea who you are, and I don't do other forums except for service dog forums. as for Aces, I know who they are and where they originate.
Just so you don't make the same mistake twice, when I posted PTS that's what I meant...as in post traumatic stress. We were talking service dogs, not euthanization.
Could you refrain from the rudeness, it doesn't become the forum at all. No one put you in charge of correcting people so why do you do it, I'm here to learn also, so could you please ignore my posts if they offend you?

I know who you are and you have said all these lies before. AS for ACES you only know what you make up. As for being pariniod I am not parinion when it comes to you since I know who you are and what you always do. You always say the same things, post the same falsehoods all to discredit people that you don't know. it is sad really. As for PTS it is called PTSD. Post Tramatic Stress Disorder. I should know. It is one of my disabilities. And PSD's are what the service dogs are called for people that have PTSD. Please research.

And yet you still have not mentioned the corrections I made to your statements. The proof I provided when you have only post falsehoods with no proof. Why am I rude to you? because I am sick of the falsehoods you continually spread and post on many forums. That is why. Stop posting false statements and provide proof to your claims and then it can stop. But when you are posting info that is lies and false about a Non for profit(if you know it so well why did you say it was in Canada when it is in fact in the States) or (saying they make up their own laws when in fact they teach law enforcement and businesses about teh ADA, which I can back up). If you know the laws so well for Canada then explain the official letter I posted? Which goes aggianst all you have said. Provide proof. But then agian you never did on the other forums. You kept post falsehoods and never backed it up.
Nicole

[DrKym]

Dr Goodnow, you live in the outer portion of the universe...lol...Unfortunately most of us have to live in the inner portion. But I agree with the US. not having to dress their dogs in some states. Where we are from, we are asked to have proper ID and certification for our SD's. The reason things are getting so strict is because of impersonations of SD's. We don"t have to have a full vest in the heat of summer but the tag is mandatory in our city. I don't really know why the woman was pushing the issue of her service dog, maybe it was to grandstand. Most people fear pitts and Wal-mart would be responsible for any accident, but it seems the matter was settled without too much trouble. This is the whole point of ID and certification, no one can argue with you. Around here we have no access problems because of stricter laws I guess. I was just sent a link from a breeder about people being able to purchase service dog equipment on the internet, I wish I would have saved it.
How reputable is that of a company to offer something like this? I consider it totally innapropriate. You get your tag and vest from your training facility when you graduate.

It is not mandatory in ANY state to have to wear any form of ID.

If it is a town ordinance then that is easily overcome by the ADA act of 1990, in all portions of the USA. No Service animal is REQUIRED to wear one, it is however encouraged.


So the laws are the same in both the inner and outer portions of this USA universe.