Disabled person in Wal-Mart thrown out!

[Lady's Human]

Federal law does NOT always trump state law.

Little thing called the 10th amendment.

If it were so cut and dry a large % of USSC cases would never have been needed.

[DrKym]

Federal law does NOT always trump state law.

Little thing called the 10th amendment.

If it were so cut and dry a large % of USSC cases would never have been needed.

In this instance it does as it has been upheld by the supreme court several times over.

The ADA Service animal law will trump state and local laws even in regards to breed bans.

I am not knowledgable enough to know about police work etc but I do have many years of experience with this law, and the way it is seen and dealt with by the courts.

this is one link that is helpful and I will go through my data base for other court cases supporting this information.

http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/ada/animal.htm

[Lady's Human]

That comment was in reference to your blanket statement about federal law trumping state, county and local laws. In this case it may, but in many cases it doesn't.

[DrKym]

That comment was in reference to your blanket statement about federal law trumping state, county and local laws. In this case it may, but in many cases it doesn't.

I am sorry if it came off as a blanket statement LH, it was intended for reference to this thread only. I never meant it to be taken in reference to any other laws , as I said I am not knowledgable enough to speak on the Federal laws regarding USSC or police work or even health or welfare laws. Just this one. Please accept my apology if it came off as all encompassing comment.

[NicoleLJ]

Just so you all know in the States Service Dogs do not have to wear any identifying ID or equipment, they do not have to be certified and no business can asked to see ID on the Service Dog. A business can only legally ask 3 questions. Is that a Service Dog? Are you Disabled? What Tasks does your service animal perform? Here some links that may help to answer some of your questions:

http://www.acesinfo.org/questions.htm
http://www.deltasociety.org/home.htm
http://www.iaadp.org/index.html

Nicole & Sheena

[mike001]

Those laws might apply to US citizens but what about Canadian citizens?
There was an article published on another forum that the laws that are made for the US have nothing to do with Canadian laws. In Canada from what I understand, people have to get an accreditted dog with certification. The dog's vest has pockets with clear plastic so it isn't hard to slip your I.D. card inside. And what woman goes shopping without a purse...lol...?

[borzoimom]

Those laws might apply to US citizens but what about Canadian citizens?
There was an article published on another forum that the laws that are made for the US have nothing to do with Canadian laws. In Canada from what I understand, people have to get an accreditted dog with certification. The dog's vest has pockets with clear plastic so it isn't hard to slip your I.D. card inside. And what woman goes shopping without a purse...lol...?

They have to wear a tag here too. Also- although a vest is not required for a service dog- most do as it also contains information on the owner as well as required health certificates. Also therapy dogs as well. The vest carries the health certificate as well as their tag with their id avid, therapy dog title etc.
Since I havent trained a service dog in many years, the person had to have a service dog id card on their person. ... I sent out a email to a friend that has trained service dogs for years to see what are the current forms of id in addition to the tags.

[NicoleLJ]

In Canada the laws are behind the times. The individual Provinces are in control of the laws pertaining to Service dogs. The only type of Service Dog that is completely protected and given full access rights within the law in Canada are Guide Dogs for the Blind. We have no one governing body for Service dogs in Canada such as the ADA for The States. But just like the States Service Dogs can be Owner Trained and there is no law in Canada Stating they must be certified or carry ID. So all other Service dogs can be refused entry to any business and have been. It is up to the business weather the Service Dog can enter.

"The Canadian Provinces


The Canadian Provinces independently have their own laws that define the rights of disabled persons. Generally, there have been two approaches. Some provinces have a Blind Persons’ Rights Act. These define, fairly specifically, where the disabled person with a dog may go, important considerations in housing, what happens if these rights are violated, and any penalties associated with them. Trainers rights or requirements, licenses or fees, identification requirements, and injury to the dog may also be included. In this respect, some provinces have statutes that are quite similar to those found in the United States. The provinces that have taken this approach include Alberta, British Columbia, Labrador, Newfoundland, Nova Scotia, Ontario, and Quèbec. While this type of law was originally written to accommodate blind persons, a number of the provinces have broadened their scope through amendments that extend these rights to deaf or hearing impaired and disabled persons.

Another approach is seen in the Human Rights Acts. The Human Rights approach covers a broader issue of discrimination in a much wider section of society. For example, Manitoba includes in its law concern for discrimination in these categories:

(a) ancestry, including colour and perceived race;
(b) nationality or national origin;
(c) ethnic background or origin;
(d) religion or creed, or religious belief, religious association or religious activity;
(e) age;
(f) sex, including pregnancy, the possibility of pregnancy, or circumstances related to pregnancy;
(g) gender-determined characteristics or circumstances other than those included in clause (f);
(h) sexual orientation;
(i) marital or family status;
(j) source of income;
(k) political belief, political association or political activity;
(l) physical or mental disability or related characteristics or circumstances, including reliance on a dog guide or other animal assistant, a wheelchair, or any other remedial appliance or device.

Frequently, in the provinces that rely primarily on this approach, the word “dog” appears only in the definition section of the law. All provinces have a Human Rights Act, but the provinces using this approach to the exclusion of more specific laws for disabled persons, include Manitoba, New Brunswick, Northwest Territories, Prince Edward Island, Saskatchewan, and Yukon."


So as you can see until Canada has a unified standard like the ADA things will remain up to the provinces to decide. It has taken a long time for mobility assisant dogs to be accepted. Autism support dogs are still not accepted and do not share all teh same rigths as a guide dog. Many of us are trying to change this. Canada needs to continue to expaned in its learnign and accepting of all service dogs. Untill then only Guide dog users have complete and full access and rights across Canada.
Nicole

[NicoleLJ]

They have to wear a tag here too. Also- although a vest is not required for a service dog- most do as it also contains information on the owner as well as required health certificates. Also therapy dogs as well. The vest carries the health certificate as well as their tag with their id avid, therapy dog title etc.
Since I havent trained a service dog in many years, the person had to have a service dog id card on their person. ... I sent out a email to a friend that has trained service dogs for years to see what are the current forms of id in addition to the tags.

I am sorry Borziomom but you are wrong. Service Dogs in the States do not need tags and do not have to be Certfied.

http://www.usdoj.gov/crt/ada/animal.htm

"Q: How can I tell if an animal is really a service animal and not just a pet?

A: Some, but not all, service animals wear special collars and harnesses. Some, but not all, are licensed or certified and have identification papers. If you are not certain that an animal is a service animal, you may ask the person who has the animal if it is a service animal required because of a disability. However, an individual who is going to a restaurant or theater is not likely to be carrying documentation of his or her medical condition or disability. Therefore, such documentation generally may not be required as a condition for providing service to an individual accompanied by a service animal. Although a number of states have programs to certify service animals, you may not insist on proof of state certification before permitting the service animal to accompany the person with a disability."

Nicole

[borzoimom]

I am aware of that- I am telling you common practice, more the norm as stated in the above " most but not all.." ..

[NicoleLJ]

I know the norm but I am just showing that it is not a legal requirement and it is agianst the law for a business to require it to allow access.
Nicole

[mike001]

I am aware of that- I am telling you common practice, more the norm as stated in the above " most but not all.." ..

You are right about this borzoid. It is normal practice for dogs to have ID. As for Canada, they are discussing throwing Aces and ADP out the window as they seem to make up their own laws governing service dogs. Canadians do not abide by this. As for service dogs being accepted, if they are certified and have proper ID they are allowed access rights. Not just guide dogs, but assistance dogs for m.s or other similar disabilities, hearing dogs,etc. What is not recognized in Canada is owner trained dogs, Canada does not recognize PSD or PTS dogs as there is really no training facility for this. They are merely thought of as comfort dogs. But if you have proper documentation there is no trouble gaining access anywhere. I know of 2 epilepsy dogs( this was a natural trait), and 4 mobility dogs and I'm sure there are more. I guess each country has their own rules. In Europe any dog is welcomed anywhere, cafes, stores, shopping malls etc. Wish it were so in our part of the world.

[todd]

wow what a story

[NicoleLJ]

You are right about this borzoid. It is normal practice for dogs to have ID. As for Canada, they are discussing throwing Aces and ADP out the window as they seem to make up their own laws governing service dogs. Canadians do not abide by this. As for service dogs being accepted, if they are certified and have proper ID they are allowed access rights. Not just guide dogs, but assistance dogs for m.s or other similar disabilities, hearing dogs,etc. What is not recognized in Canada is owner trained dogs, Canada does not recognize PSD or PTS dogs as there is really no training facility for this. They are merely thought of as comfort dogs. But if you have proper documentation there is no trouble gaining access anywhere. I know of 2 epilepsy dogs( this was a natural trait), and 4 mobility dogs and I'm sure there are more. I guess each country has their own rules. In Europe any dog is welcomed anywhere, cafes, stores, shopping malls etc. Wish it were so in our part of the world.

There is so much in this that is funny. First of all ACES is American. lol And is a Non for profit Advocacy group that teaches law enforcement, hospitals and public businesses what the federal law is pertaining to Service Dogs and what should be done when they come in contact with a service dog and their handler. You should do some research before you make a blantant claim about something you know nothing about. LOL I will have to show Judi this thread(founder of ACES) she will find this truely laughable just like the other lies you tried to post about her on other forums. lol

Check your Canadian laws. I have told you on other forums to do this but you never do. I even give you the links to the laws and still you refuse to look. If you refuse to gain the knowledge then stop spreading lies. In Canada there is only One type of Service dog that is accepted and protected by the laws in all provinces. That is Guide Dogs. All teh provinces make up their own laws regaurding Service Dogs. And yes Owner Trained dogs are accepted. They have the same rights as all the other service dogs which is at teh discresion of the store or business. Most businesses luckily are very aware of the different types of Service dogs and as such allow them.

Hwo do I know about teh laws? I have a PSD. And there is finnally a PSD that has been certified in Canada by a trainer. There are many PSD's in Canada. And there is 2 training facilities in Canada now that train PSD's. One in fact is in Ontario. So next time you make another claim you know nothing about do your research. PLEASE. I am so sick of correcting you when you post crap ,like this on a forum. And agian to show how uneducated you are their is no such thing as a service dog called a PTS. PTS means Put To Sleep. GESH but thanks for the laugh.
Nicole

[NicoleLJ]

I just read something that I am VERY happy about. Here is the link(you might have to cut and paste:

http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/oATZRYK...oBlankname.pdf

Notice Under the Ontario Human Rights Code it says "The law requires Access for both persons who require a guide/service dog due to a mental disability" meaning PSD's included. I have never seen this though it is dated 2005. I have only been learning about the Service dog laws for about 4 years so I still have a long way to go. Judi(my trainer) said it will never stop. Now remember this is Ontario. Each province governs itself when it comes to the Service dog laws. And notice that no mention of certifaction is required. Only a letter from a doctor(which I carry every where with me). WOW I was so excited to see this. Now if we can just get teh laws rewritten to have all service dogs mentioned instead of just guide dogs we will be all set. lol
Nicole & Sheena